Biden, Ryan Clash In Entertaining Debate: Biden Wins The Debate, No One Wins The Anti-War Movement

This sums up the debate.

A fight didn't break out, but it was more fiery than the last.

Also, thank you Raddatz for teaching American journalists how to moderate again. She's a lot of the reason why this debate was fun to watch.

Now Wolf Blitzer's voice will put America to sleep...

Update 11:30 PM

Closing Statements Biden: American people, "It's gonna be ok."

Ryan's: The market will make it ok.

Update 11:20 PM

Update 11:17 PM Would Ryan extend his maxim on a child's right to life to children in Pakistan and Yemen living under drones? #avoidquestioningthemilitaryindustrialcomplextatallcosts

Update 11:13 PM Ryan lamenting the fact that we aren't still occupying Iraq again. When he says negotiate for a "status of forces" agreement, he means negotiate for prolonged occupation.

Update 11:10 PM Ryan's response: RUSSIA IS OUR GREATEST ADVESARY

Also, US troops are poised in Jordan, in response to the Syria crisis.

Update 11:08 PM

Raddatz: Why are we treating Syria differently than Libya?

Biden's response: They're different countries, Waka, Waka, Waka.

Biden's thoughts: Well Martha, one produces olive oil and the other produces crude.

Update 11:03 PM Baghdad kicked you out Biden. They've rejected training packages. They're even starting to go to Russia for weaponry. On Iraq, Biden lies -- of course Ryan doesn't have what it takes to take Biden on on this point.

Update 10:58 PM Summary of Romney ticket's position on Afghanistan according to Romney: We agree with the Administration's policy, we'd just do it differently. How would our policy differ exactly? Well we'd do it differently.

Update 10:55 PM Biden "We won't cut it." Military-industrial-complex lobbies you can relax. American people, start sweatin.

Update 10:54 PM Wow Martha Raddatz just brought up defense cuts. Taking on Ryan for his gross hypocrisy on the matter. Raddatz is a real moderator.

Update 10:51 PM Biden just said Ryan's not Jack Kennedy! Vice Presidential debate history repeats itself. And Biden's still on fire. But note neither is discussing the benefits cutting military spending pose for our fiscal problems... hmm.

Update 10:44 PM Anyone else thinking the undecided voter doodad on the bottom of the screen on CNN's debate coverage is as gross as I do?

Update 10:33 PM Joe's dishonest. But a smooth debater. Ryan's dishonest too and a far less smooth debater than expected. #politics #unsubstantivecommentaryrightthere

Update 10:32 PM Biden's being disingenous about his voting record. He voted for the Iraq War and later said that Iraq was fiscally irresponsible -- after the damage was done.

Update 9:29 PM Energy independence... Hmm. Will that help our foreign policy entanglement in the Middle East. Facts in this Atlantic article suggests no.

Update 9:22 PM

...And now Biden's bringing up the 47% vs. Romney.

Update 9:18 PM Both candidates arguing that sanctions on Iran have an affect on the program... Arguable.

Update 9:07 PM Ryan is making the case that a continued occupation of Iraq would have helped America's image abroad. Gross.

Update 9:05 PM Biden in trouble about Libya: Well killed Bin Laden didn't we?!

Update 9:03 PM Raddatz opening with an aggressive question about Libya! Already better than Lehrer

Update 9:00 PM Opted for CNN. Raddatz has started talking.

Update 8:55 PM Picking which cable news channel to watch. Ubstantive Republican coverage on Fox, unsubstantive Democrat coverage on MSNBC, or just generic unsubstantive coverage from CNN?

On Thursday night, two overprepped automaton ... the incumbent Vice President Joe Biden, and his opponent, Congressman Paul Ryan, will debate in Danville, Kentucky.

Many media outlets have argued that the vice presidential debate does not typically affect the outcome of the campaign. In a way, the outlets are almost certainly right.

It's highly unlikely that the debate will do much to dramatically alter the course that many U.S. policymakers are set on. This bout of political theater won't stop the drone campaigns, end the War on Drugs, free any whistleblowers or besieged journalists, drop incarceration rates, and lay bare a wide set of policy alternatives for the American people. When was the last time a debate did something like that?

So, why watch this debate? Watch it for the same reasons you watched all of those awful American Idol auditions back when they were in vogue -- Sure some of you may have called in and voted, but none of you were watching the trainwreck-programming for democracy's sake.

Just consider the temperaments of the individuals scheduled to engage in rhetorical combat. Ryan is a socially conservative, market-fundamentalist, "wonky," budget-cutting (except when it comes to the military-industrial-complex) fanatic, and Biden is -- well -- just a fanatic.

On Thursday night, American viewers may witness not just a debate, but a dramatic clash. Think Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader.

But if a fight does break out at Centre College, don't expect any lightsabers. Too elegant. Biden will probably opt to use a few chains instead, while Ryan may find use for his thick, hardcover copy of The Fountainhead.

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